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Re: flex or stiff, which is grippier
Posted by 'itpro' on 13 Mar 2012 @ 01:01


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itpro
Joined: August 2001
Total Posts: 6
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This is a classic...... and should explain a lot about karting to you!

Firstly, look at your question. You ask about 'grip'..... but what do you MEAN by 'grip'?

A large group of karters will tell you that 'grip' means 'the cornering grip that's applied via the REAR wheels'.

Another sizeable group will tell you that 'grip' means the WHOLE kart grip, front and rear tyres combined....i.e. OVERALL grip.

A final bunch will tell you that 'grip' is the ability of the kart to apply ACCERATION in a straight line...i.e..... what's normally called 'traction'.

When you see that we can't agree on one meaning of the WORD 'grip', then what hope have you got that you'll get ONE answer to your question......?

So... I suggest that we/you stick to the old descriptions where:-

'Grip' = overall grip, front and rear of the WHOLE kart... I.e., the ability to go round a corner, fastest!

'Rear end Grip' = the 'grip' delivered JUST by the REAR tyres in a corner

'Traction' = the ability to apply the force produced by the engine to the track... thus 'acceleration grip'!

It's not that those are the RIGHT words.... it's just an easy way of ensuring we can use the SAME words!

Now..... the second part.....

If the answer was a simple 'stiffer = more grip' or 'softer = more grip'..... then why the HELL would anyone be stupid enough to build a kart that's the OPPOSITE of the ideal.? If 'stiff' worked best... who'd build a soft kart or vice versa....?

What we CAN say is that Soft works best in SOME conditions and Stiff works better in OTHER conditions!

It really ISN'T as simple as "one is better"!

Again, we have disagreements about this. A simple argument would be that.... tyres deliver more grip in the standard British Summer than they do in the standard British Winter. It could therefore be argued that the chassis suffers more FORCE delivered by the tyres in Summer than the Winter. Thus a soft chassis might 'flex' PERFECTLY in the Winter but bend like wet spaghetti under the loads delivered in the Summer. The a Stiff chassis might be PERFECT in the Summer to resist the higher loads but be MUCH too stiff to work in the cold conditions!

Next, you need to think about the WHOLE of 'flex'. We need to take a simple example of ONE problem to discuss this. Let's assume the chassis has too LITTLE camber but it's Flexible enough to 'bend' to the IDEAL angle under high cornering loads in SUMMER but the tyres don't give enough grip in winter to bend the camber to the ideal in winter. Of course, it could be the exact reverse in that the chassis has TOO MUCH camber and thus it works FABULOUSLY in Winter when the temps and thus tyre grip is low BUT the chassis become a JOKE in the high grip Summer!

Of course...... if you build your kart for Scandinavian summer/winters.... then the 'perfect' stiffness would probably be different to Italian summer/winters. In a hot Italian summer, the tyres could EASILY get too hot and thus hot weather COULD REDUCE the tyre grip available compared to a warm winter!

That may WELL explain why some chassis may work FABULOUSLY at the World Championships in a Hot climate but be CR*P in the UK..... and of course, vice versa!

Now..... I hope you'll see that all of the above shows that there CANNOT be ONE SINGLE answer for all karts because a soft chassis may work with one camber angle and may be a DISASTER with another. It just depends on the REST of the chassis.

Camber isn't the ONLY variable that can cause differences between soft and stiff chassis. Almost EVERYTHING else can be a problem, seat stay stiffness, axle mounts, ride height, tracking, amount of 'Ackerman', etc. etc., etc......

**********

A lot of the above may be too 'theoretical' for you. I'd thus suggest you look around and ask youself the simple, earlier, question:-

If ONE type of chassis (stiff or soft) COULD be 'perfect' for all tyres/seasons/tracks/weather ...... what sort of IMBECILE would build the OPPOSITE? There's a RANGE of stiffness simply because there is a RANGE of karting conditions!

Sorry.... anyone who gives you a SINGLE answer hasn't thought through the problem!

The solution..... watch those people who are winniong at YOUR Track/s and it'll be a safe-ish bet to choose the chasis which WINS at your track. But.... you MAY need a different chassis of Winter.....

If that doesn't answer you, just tell us which way you are using the word 'grip' and we'll have more chance of giving the 'right' answer..... if there IS one!

Ian

Message Thread:

flex or stiff, which is grippier  by 'jak70'   (12 Mar 2012 @ 19:59)
Re: flex or stiff, which is grippier  by 'BD'   (12 Mar 2012 @ 20:03)
Re: flex or stiff, which is grippier  by 'PaulMRotax'   (12 Mar 2012 @ 20:25)
Re: flex or stiff, which is grippier  by 'brinjono'   (12 Mar 2012 @ 21:44)
Re: flex or stiff, which is grippier  by 'itpro'  << You are here!
Re: flex or stiff, which is grippier  by 'MattScott'   (13 Mar 2012 @ 6:44)
Re: flex or stiff, which is grippier  by 'John'   (13 Mar 2012 @ 6:52)
Brin  by 'itpro'   (13 Mar 2012 @ 10:20)
Re: Brin  by 'brinjono'   (13 Mar 2012 @ 13:41)
Re: Brin  by 'PaulMRotax'   (13 Mar 2012 @ 15:37)
Re: Brin  by 'itpro'   (13 Mar 2012 @ 17:03)
Re: Itpro and Paul  by 'buzzinrussell'   (13 Mar 2012 @ 17:05)
Re: Itpro and Paul  by 'rushy121'   (13 Mar 2012 @ 17:17)
Re: Itpro and Paul  by 'michaelg36'   (13 Mar 2012 @ 17:20)
Re: Itpro and Paul  by 'rushy121'   (13 Mar 2012 @ 17:22)
Re: Itpro and Paul  by 'itpro'   (13 Mar 2012 @ 17:24)
is there a "like" button on here  by 'DavidG'   (13 Mar 2012 @ 19:05)
Re: Brin  by 'racingjase'   (13 Mar 2012 @ 17:23)
Re: Brin  by 'itpro'   (13 Mar 2012 @ 17:46)
Re: Brin  by 'brinjono'   (13 Mar 2012 @ 17:49)
Re: Brin  by 'racingjase'   (13 Mar 2012 @ 19:34)
Re: Brin  by 'brinjono'   (13 Mar 2012 @ 21:13)
Re: Brin  by 'racingjase'   (13 Mar 2012 @ 21:55)
Re: Brin  by 'itpro'   (14 Mar 2012 @ 11:29)
Re: Brin  by 'PaulMRotax'   (13 Mar 2012 @ 17:46)
Re: Brin  by 'itpro'   (13 Mar 2012 @ 17:50)
Re: Brin  by 'PaulMRotax'   (13 Mar 2012 @ 18:13)
Buy an....  by 'NJB'   (14 Mar 2012 @ 9:00)

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