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Re: What chassis are you running ?
Posted by 'itpro' on 28 Mar 2011 @ 23:35

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itproJoined: August 2001
Total Posts: 6
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Steve, some pleople believe the axle holds the key to everything.... others (me included) think it's a red herring!

Your reason for wanting to play with axles appears to be becasue you get hopping mid way through a corner becasue of 'too much grip'.

.... Ok... you answer the questions for yourself:-

1) Did you hear any of the F1 guys on Sunday complaining they had 'too MUCH grip'? Remember they are producing 5 G's worth of grip and you are producing 1 G's worth . Also remember that. given a choice.... (and they thought they could get away with it, legally...) they'd DOUBLE the grip they get.....

2) have you EVER heard any other class of racing complain about 'too much grip'.... or is it only in karts....?

3) what is SO special about karts that could possibly make 'too mcuh grip' a problem...... but in no OTHER motor racing series?

4) If I had the world's most SPECTACULAR tyres that DOUBLED the grip, to give away.... do you think there's a top-line driver who'd REFUSE them..... even though it RAISED their grip levels....? Forget GIVING them away..... wouldn't that pay THROUGH THE NOSE to get hold of a set for anything op to TWICE the price of a whole kart....?

If I ask myself those questions, I come up with the answer..... nah.... you CAN NOT have 'too much grip'. That's like being too FAST as a 100 metre runner, too slippery in the swimming pool, too fast on a bicycle.... those things DON'T occur!

OK.... you COULD have too much grip at the front (or the rear) if the grip at the rear (or the front) was too high compared to the opposite end but you CAN'T have too much grip at BOTH ends at once..... that situation is simply called...... going faster!

Isn't the 'right question'... what is causing my Hopping?

Don't imagine that the axle flexes enough to allow the kart to bend-up on the inside.... that's NOT what's happening in Hopping.

What hopping is... is as follows:-

The sideways force on the kart can be thought of as being applied to the Centre Of Gravity (strictly, that's the centre of force but...). In the vertical direction, it's roughly level with your navel.

In a double decker bus.... it's somewhere up between the tops of the lower-level seats and the 1st ceiling. If you tried to force a DDbus to corner at 1 G... the CofG is SO high that the force on it would topple it over. The maximum G you could generate in a bus is LESS than on a kart because the CofG is SO much higher that it topples over at a lesser G. You COULD make the DDBus corner faster WITHOUT toppling over.. if you:-

Lowered the CofG or...

WIDENED the gap between the the two front wheels and the the two rear wheels.

Think of this as a triangle, with the two wheels as the base and the CofG as the peak. The more 'spikey' the triangle (taller than wide) the easier it is to push it over.

Now....

In the kart.... what happens is that, with High G.... your kart is STARTING to topple over..... that lifts the inside wheels up and that tips the OUTSIDE rear tyres onto just a CORNER of those tyre (the outside wall/tread junction)..... That tiny piece of tyre CANNOT generate the grip any longer and the kart slides...which lets the kart fall BACK onto all its wheels again..... and the G can rise again.... causing the kart to start to topple....... and so on...... and THAT's what 'hopping' is....!

Now.... we saw in the DDBus.... all we needed to do was to LOWER the CofG or WIDEN the bus to stop it toppling......

.......The two possible solutions to your problem should be OBVIOUS to you, now!

********

Ok..... ignore all that lot..... look at it another way:-

If you are getting too much grip.... you are trying to throw some away by changing axles.

Why change the AXLE to reduce grip? There are LOADS of FREE ways to loose grip..... just overheat your tyres, run an old set, over/under inflate the tyres, fit he wrong wheels, etc., etc., etc.. Why would you want to PAY for a new axle just to throw grip away.....?

Axles MIGHT make a difference to the 'grip'..... but if it's a 'too much grip' that you are trying to solve...it's a DAMNED expensive way of chucking away grip!

If you are now saying..... 'I ca;'t do any of those things because I spend all my time trying to IMPROVE my grip to improve my lap times' (which is what the rest of use spend years trying to improve).... doesn't that make you think that trying to throw grip away is NOT a good idea.....?

Others will tell you I am talking total b*ll*cks!

You can make your own judgement now you know some of the 'facts'.

Ian

Message Thread:

Hard or soft axle? by 'SteveAW' (28 Mar 2011 @ 18:06)

What chassis are you running ? by 'ScoobyScene' (28 Mar 2011 @ 18:23)

Re: What chassis are you running ? by 'SteveAW' (28 Mar 2011 @ 18:33)

Re: What chassis are you running ? by 'MikeMcMahon' (28 Mar 2011 @ 23:11)

Re: What chassis are you running ? by 'itpro' << You are here!

Re: What chassis are you running ? by 'davidmc' (29 Mar 2011 @ 0:06)

Re: What chassis are you running ? by 'itpro' (29 Mar 2011 @ 0:29)

Re: What chassis are you running ? by 'davidmc' (29 Mar 2011 @ 8:39)

Re: What chassis are you running ? by 'itpro' (29 Mar 2011 @ 10:19)

Re: What chassis are you running ? by 'davidmc' (29 Mar 2011 @ 11:06)

Re: What chassis are you running ? by 'itpro' (29 Mar 2011 @ 11:54)

Re: What chassis are you running ? by 'davidmc' (29 Mar 2011 @ 12:42)

Re: What chassis are you running ? by 'Rafe005' (29 Mar 2011 @ 7:55)

Re: What chassis are you running ? by 'NJB' (29 Mar 2011 @ 9:34)

Re: What chassis are you running ? by 'SteveAW' (29 Mar 2011 @ 10:05)

Re: What chassis are you running ? by 'davidmc' (29 Mar 2011 @ 10:14)

Re: What chassis are you running ? by 'chriskasch' (29 Mar 2011 @ 10:21)

Re: What chassis are you running ? by 'itpro' (29 Mar 2011 @ 10:35)

Re: What chassis are you running ? by 'BanzaiBoy' (29 Mar 2011 @ 11:00)

Re: What chassis are you running ? by 'davidmc' (29 Mar 2011 @ 11:18)

Re: What chassis are you running ? by 'QuickOldTimer' (29 Mar 2011 @ 13:10)

Rafe by 'itpro' (29 Mar 2011 @ 10:28)

Re: Rafe by 'davidmc' (29 Mar 2011 @ 11:14)

Re: Rafe by 'itpro' (29 Mar 2011 @ 12:22)

Re: Rafe by 'PaulMRotax' (29 Mar 2011 @ 12:53)

Re: Rafe by 'davidmc' (29 Mar 2011 @ 13:04)

Re: Rafe by 'PaulMRotax' (29 Mar 2011 @ 13:25)

Re: Rafe by 'davidmc' (29 Mar 2011 @ 13:38)

Re: Rafe by 'PaulMRotax' (29 Mar 2011 @ 13:44)

Re: Rafe by 'davidmc' (29 Mar 2011 @ 13:54)

Re: Rafe by 'davidmc' (29 Mar 2011 @ 12:56)

Re: Rafe by 'itpro' (29 Mar 2011 @ 13:14)

Re: Rafe by 'davidmc' (29 Mar 2011 @ 13:32)

Re: Rafe by 'itpro' (29 Mar 2011 @ 14:20)

continued.... by 'itpro' (29 Mar 2011 @ 14:24)

Re: continued.... by 'itpro' (29 Mar 2011 @ 14:41)

Re: Grip continued.... by 'John' (29 Mar 2011 @ 14:59)

Re: Grip continued.... by 'itpro' (29 Mar 2011 @ 16:13)

data! by 'BanzaiBoy' (29 Mar 2011 @ 18:40)

Re: Grip continued.... by 'John' (29 Mar 2011 @ 18:46)

Re: Grip continued.... by 'Traxtar' (29 Mar 2011 @ 18:48)

Re: Grip continued.... by 'John' (29 Mar 2011 @ 22:28)

Re: Grip continued.... by 'itpro' (30 Mar 2011 @ 10:28)

Re: Grip continued.... by 'John' (30 Mar 2011 @ 12:07)

Re: Grip continued.... by 'davidmc' (30 Mar 2011 @ 12:15)

Re: Ian ----- Grip continued.... by 'John' (30 Mar 2011 @ 15:35)

Re: Ian ----- Grip continued.... by 'Bod' (30 Mar 2011 @ 15:40)

Re: Ian ----- Grip continued.... by 'DavidMH' (31 Mar 2011 @ 13:30)

Re: Grip continued.... by 'itpro' (31 Mar 2011 @ 2:38)

Re: Grip continued.... by 'itpro' (30 Mar 2011 @ 15:44)

Re: Grip continued.... by 'John' (30 Mar 2011 @ 16:15)

Re: Grip continued.... by 'itpro' (30 Mar 2011 @ 17:34)

Re: Grip continued.... by 'John' (30 Mar 2011 @ 22:03)

Re: Grip continued.... by 'QuickOldTimer' (30 Mar 2011 @ 22:22)

Re: Grip continued.... by 'John' (30 Mar 2011 @ 23:33)

Re: Grip continued.... by 'QuickOldTimer' (30 Mar 2011 @ 23:55)

John... by 'itpro' (31 Mar 2011 @ 2:22)

Re: Ian... by 'John' (31 Mar 2011 @ 5:31)

Re: John... by 'itpro' (31 Mar 2011 @ 11:11)

Re: Ian... by 'John' (01 Apr 2011 @ 0:32)

Re: John... by 'itpro' (01 Apr 2011 @ 1:19)

Re: continued.... by 'PaulMRotax' (29 Mar 2011 @ 15:42)

So what about tyre graining? by 'SteveAW' (29 Mar 2011 @ 17:48)

Re: So what about tyre graining? by 'itpro' (29 Mar 2011 @ 18:21)

Re: So what about tyre graining? by 'PaulMRotax' (29 Mar 2011 @ 18:22)

Hopping by 'NJB' (29 Mar 2011 @ 18:48)

NJB by 'Traxtar' (29 Mar 2011 @ 19:14)

Re: Hopping by 'Inter61' (29 Mar 2011 @ 19:17)

Re: Hopping....PFI by 'NJB' (30 Mar 2011 @ 11:49)

Re: Hopping....PFI by 'davidmc' (30 Mar 2011 @ 12:27)

Re: Hopping....PFI by 'itpro' (31 Mar 2011 @ 2:32)

Re: Hopping....PFI by 'NJB' (31 Mar 2011 @ 15:54)

Re: Hopping....PFI by 'itpro' (31 Mar 2011 @ 17:18)

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